TV Show Discusses US “Grand Plan” to Denuclearize Pakistan

At 1400 gmt on 16 September Pakistan’s Geo TV News carried live its regularly scheduled “Capital Talk” program relayed from the channel’s Islamabad studio. Prominent Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir is the host of the popular talk show in Pakistan. The guests were Retired Lt. Gen. Talat Masood, prominent defense analyst; Tariq Fatmi, former Pakistan ambassador to United States; Yousuf Nazar, prominent economist and columnist, who joins discussion via video link in Karachi; Retired Lt. Gen. Hamid Gul, former director general of Inter Services Intelligence. The discussion was on the theory of US’ “grand plan” to “denuclearize” Pakistan

Hamid Mir begins the discussion by saying that the western media is describing Pakistan “as the most dangerous country of the world.” Mir adds: the western newspapers, especially Washington Post and New York Times, are continuously writing that “Pakistan’s security forces are secretly helping Islamic extremists, Pakistan’s nuclear weapons are unsafe and Pakistan’s tribal areas have become safe havens for terrorists. Continuing, Mir says some people in Pakistan are of the view that if full military power is used, extremists could be eliminated from the tribal areas, but many Pakistani observers also believe that “America’s real war is not against terror and even if extremists are eliminated in tribal areas through use of full force, America would keep telling Pakistan //do more, do more// because its real target is Pakistan’s military and Pakistan’s nuclear program.” Mir says: an American think tank with the cooperation of America’s Naval War College carried out a study and prepared a plan in 1999 which aimed at destroying not only Pakistan’s nuclear, but erase Pakistan from the world map. Mir adds: the plan surmises that America’s B-52 bombers would attack and destroy Pakistan’s nuclear installations in 2010 and by 2012 India would occupy Azad Kashmir [Pakistan-held Kashmir] and Pakistan’s federation would become so weak that ultimately there would be a confederation of India and Pakistan and by 2020 even this confederation would end and Pakistan would be erased from world map. Mir says: the American think tank’s study not only talked about end of Pakistan, but mentions disintegration of Iran and Afghanistan and claimed that these states would merge with Uzbekistan and Tajikistan.

Mir asks Masood whether Pakistan should take American War College study seriously, or is it mere flight of imagination. Masood says although the study should be taken seriously, but it is also true that American think tanks have different projections for different states, which also include worst case scenarios like the one painted by this study on Pakistan. Masood adds: irrespective of America’s intentions–whether to destroy Pakistan’s nuclear program and to destabilize and disintegrate it or not, Washington’s present policies toward Pakistan would make people believe in these conspiracy theories.

Mir asks Fatmi whether he would take the study seriously or not. Fatmi says American think tanks have full freedom and resources to carry out various studies in which they reach conclusions– responsible or irresponsible– because they are of the view that every possibility should be tagged and America should be ready for every eventuality. Fatmi adds: after the disintegration of Soviet Union, America’s focus on Islam increased, especially after 9/11, and some US think tanks believe that America has to face the twin challenges of Islam and China and that is why America’s ties with India should be of strategic nature, which is now unfolding.

Mir asks Nazar whether America has any “//grand plan//” about Pakistan. Nazar says: apart from US Naval War College study, New York Times and London’s Guardian published a report on 15 October 2005 about the disclosure by Phillipe Sands, who is prominent British lawyer and law professor at London University and author of book “Lawless World,” that the British prime minister prepared false documents to justify the Iraq war. Nazar says Philliple Sands in his book also refers to a note quoting top adviser of Tony Blair and this note documents a conversation between President Bush and Tony Blair on 30 January 2003 in which Bush told Blair that after Iraq, it will be the turn of Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Continuing, Nazar says: after Bush’s coming to power, a group of Neocons, which included people like Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Pearl, took control of the presidency and establishment with a “specific //agenda//” of creating “total military domination” of A! merica in world, especially in some particular regions.

Mir asks Masood: how would America benefit with disintegration of Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran. Masood says he does not believe the theory that America wants to disintegrate Pakistan. Masood thinks that America is interested in imposing its policies on Pakistan and if Pakistan takes a different position than the American thinking, Pakistan comes under pressure. Continuing, Masood says America is wrong in putting blame on Pakistan’s tribal areas for its troubles in Afghanistan, it should rather pay attention to problems like poppy cultivation and narcotic trafficking in Afghanistan. Mir interrupts to say Afghan President Karzai’s brother is involved in “/ /drug smuggling.//” Masood says America’s thinking has been poisoned and fed with lots of apprehensiveness about Pakistan.

Mir repeats the same question to Gul: what is America’s grand plan about Pakistan. Gul says: America’s long-term objectives are to “devoid Pakistan of nuclear capability, weaken Pakistan’s ideological identity, separate Pakistan from China” and end any assistance being given from Pakistan’s side to the continuing resistance in Afghanistan. Gul adds: America thinks that until Pakistan’s nuclear and missile capability is not destroyed, Israel would not be satisfied. Gul says: but there is national consensus in Pakistan on the nuclear program, Pakistan’s Constitution clearly defines Islamic identity of country and Pakistan cannot end its friendship with China and so there is a “conflict” between US long- term objectives and Pakistan’s national aspirations. Gul says: Pakistan should summon special OIC session and approach the UN Security Council to protest against the American challenge to Pakistan’s sovereignty. Gul also believes that Pakistan should also promote relations with Russia and China and Zardari should have first gone to Beijing and not to London.

Fatmi says American officials and media are stating that American actions inside Pakistan are part of an “//understanding//” with Pakistan and are in line with its doctrine of right to unilateral action against areas giving refuge to terrorists. Fatmi says the issue is, thus, complicated and approaching the UN Security Council would not help, especially if Pakistan wants American influence on World Bank and IMF to receive economic assistance. Fatmi, however, supports Gul’s view that Pakistan should promote ties with Russia and China.

Masood believes that America does not feel threatened by Pakistan’s nuclear program, it started feeling apprehensive only after knowing about Dr. A.Q Khan network’s activity.

Nazar does not agree with Masood that America does not feel threatened by Pakistan’s nuclear weapons and cites CIA and National Intelligence Council estimates of 2015 scenario which clearly state that states with nuclear weapons capability like Pakistan could directly threaten US interests in their respective regions.

Mir asks: what is the way out for Pakistan in the present situation? Nazar says: there is need for a comprehensive review of defense, foreign and economic policies. Nazar adds: American financial system is now “almost bankrupt” and only brotherly Arab states and China could help Pakistan in the present circumstances.

Mir says he came across a placard carried by a Muslim youth which reads: “//I am a Muslim, kill me and call it collateral damage; imprison me and call it a security measure; exile my people and call it new Middle East, rob my resources, invade my land, alter my leadership and call it democracy.” Mir adds: placard reflects the thinking of Muslim young generation about America.

Mir asks Fatmi whether it is possible to deepen relations with China to offset America. Fatmi says Pakistan has so strong defense ties with America that complete switchover to China will be difficult, especially in view of continuing Indian threat to Pakistan. Fatmi also cites American media analysis that Washington may use New Delhi to increase pressure on Pakistan.

Masood agrees that India is also exploiting present situation in Pakistan and is after Pakistan Army and Inter Services Intelligence. Masood says India has also stopped flow of water in Chenab river [used for irrigation in Pakistan] to build pressure on Pakistan.

Mir notes that Maulana Fazlur Rahman has been appointed as the chairman or parliament’s Kashmir Committee and Rahman claims that he has a lot of good will in India. Mir asks Fatmi whether Rahman’s appointment would help solve Kashmir issue. Fatmi says personalities do not affect relations between countries and especially in case of India-Pakistan relations.

Mir establishes video link with Sayed Salahuddin, chief of Hizbul Mujahidin [separatist Kashmiri outfit] and asks him what will be India’s next move on Kashmir. Salahuddin says if Kashmiri people’s self-determination movement is further strengthened, India will give Jammu a separate statehood for which is already preparing a ground work in order to divide the state of Jammu and Kashmir and change demographic status of Jammu and Kashmir.

Masood and Fatmi say that Pakistan should support the present “// spontaneous//” and “//indigenous//” Kashmiri people’s movement for freedom and self-determination.

Originally published by Geo TV, Karachi, in Urdu 1400 16 Sep 08.

(c) 2008 BBC Monitoring South Asia. Provided by ProQuest LLC. All rights Reserved.