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Iraqi Premier on US Withdrawal, Military Bases, Government Achievement, Polls

Posted on: Tuesday, 13 December 2005, 18:00 CST

"Text" of interview with Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Ja'fari by Mushriq Abbas, datelined Baghdad, place and date not given, entitled "He said US military bases do not serve Iraqi people's interests. Al-Ja'fari to Al-Hayat: I headed a war cabinet; I will not allow United States to determine our policy towards Syria", published on London-based newspaper Al-Hayat website on 11 December; subheadings as published

Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Ja'fari has said the government he headed was "a war cabinet" and "reacted to the requirements of the stage in line with that view as a result of the challenges that faced Iraq".

In an interview with Al-Hayat he said "the government is prepared to enter into a dialogue with those who carry arms in Iraq... and it distinguishes between the terrorists and those who have a different view from the government regarding the occupation." He stressed that the US side did not offer to establish military bases in Iraq after its "forthcoming" departure and that "the establishment of such bases does not serve Iraqi interests".

Al-Ja'fari said his government "will not allow the United States to determine Iraq's stand towards Syria". He said the Iraqi-Syrian dossier was discussed during his recent visit to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

He said neither the United States nor Iran asked him to mediate in the relations between them. He criticized the performance of his predecessor Iyad Allawi who bequeathed to his government "corruption and a shaky security situation".

Following is the text of the interview:

Proud of government achievement

[Abbas] We are approaching the end of the period of your heading a government that has provoked as much controversy as criticism. How do you assess the performance of the Iraqi provisional government? What have you achieved and where have you failed?

[Al-Ja'fari] We must emphasize that the Iraqi government has taken long strides and achieved success and also faced surprises. However, on the political level we have been able to score achievements, having inherited an administration that was knee-deep in corruption, frustration, economic failure and poor performance on the security level. Nevertheless, we completed the draft constitution and prepared for the elections. When we say we have formed a government we do not mean that classical way in which governments are formed in the world, for we began from the zero that was reached by the previous government. There were no institutions and no services. The accumulations of the past, the sabotage and political hypocrisy were at their height. I can confidently say that we did not take over a government apparatus and we had to create government apparatuses from nothing.

When we say we have formed a government we must remember that we faced an important challenge represented in the lack of proportionality between the size of Sunni Arabs in parliament and their actual demographic size, but we insisted that the composition of the government reflects the nature of the distribution of the Iraqi people.

Frankly, I feel proud of all what we have achieved. Every step we made was better than the previous one. Eight million Iraqis participated in the 30 January 2005 elections, while 10 million Iraqis participated in the October 2005 referendum [on the constitution]. The security forces are no longer in the same poor shape in which we received them. The security forces now number 100,000 officers and recruits. We provided 50,000 vacant posts for teachers and we brought back 4,000 media personnel to the Ministry of Culture. There are dozens of other similar examples. However, I also believe there are many things I could not achieve because of the time factor and complicated security circumstances. Nevertheless we are hopeful that the progress will gather momentum and dynamism and surge forward with a solid will to improve the Iraqi situation.

War cabinet

[Abbas] It is said you have opted for the method of a security state and that you have neglected dialogue with armed groups, while we hear statements from several official sides in addition to the US side on dialogue with those factions?

[Al-Ja'fari] Let me first acknowledge that the security aspect has occupied the greater part of my government's attention. I believe that is justified in light of the threats to which we are subjected and that are unparalleled in the world in their ferocity. I can clearly say that my government is "a war cabinet". That was the reality of the situation and I believe we have achieved a qualitative difference in that regard.

Politics in parallel with security

With regard to what some brothers say about "dialogue", I believe that today's Iraq is not the Iraq of positions and moods. There is a law and a constitution and any measure has to pass through them. Talk about holding talks or something of the sort must be linked to the government's stands and not to personal stands. However, once again I affirm that I am not against dialogue. I was the first to call for dialogue with everyone and I believe that weapons are a failed political option. However much we talk about a security situation we must ultimately produce parallel political measures. That is our policy.

[Abbas] Does that mean you are prepared to have a dialogue with the armed groups?

[Al-Ja'fari] Personally I am prepared to have a dialogue with everyone without exception because dialogue is a value in itself. It is one of our inalienable principles. We also distinguish between two kinds of people who carry arms. We do not put those who kill Iraqis and target civilian institutions together with those who have carried arms on the basis of a view that is at variance with the government and espouses the slogan of ending the occupation. We believe dialogue is possible with the second group, despite the differences of views between us. We are prepared to initiate such a dialogue but we must distinguish between dialogue, the exchange of views and stands, and between negotiations and concluding agreements and political contracts. However, generally speaking, we are with all those who get back to their senses and shun the language of violence.

[Abbas] However, talk on that matter is almost ambiguous. All Iraqi officials say we are for dialogue with the groups that resist the occupation, with the exception of terrorists. Yet no-one has set his classification and methods for distinguishing between the two sides, which sometimes can be considered to impart further ambiguity to the official political stand?

[Al-Ja'fari] I have said in the past that we distinguish between the terrorists and between those who have different views from us. However, I believe the context of classification and differentiation is different, and we do not have statistics to distinguish between the two sides, although we know that such distinction exists.

[Abbas] Some armed groups have in the past said that they refuse to have a dialogue with your government and preferred to do so with the Americans?

[Al-Ja'fari] I believe there is a contradiction there. They attack the government for dealing with what they call the occupying forces and then they go to the side which they believe is the cause of all problems in Iraq to negotiate with it. I see great contradiction between the two stands.

[Abbas] Do you have knowledge of negotiations taking place between the Americans and armed forces?

[Al-Ja'fari] We have no knowledge except what is reported in the media.

Relations with Syria

[Abbas] There is also the regional aspect of the Iraq issue. Let us talk about tension in the Iraqi-Syrian relationship?

[Al-Ja'fari] Syria is a noble Arab country. I have good relations with it. I had met the late President Hafiz al-Asad and I have met the current President Bashar al-Asad. We hope to establish relations that rise to the level of love and fraternity between the two peoples. However, we do not accept the violations to which that relationship is being subjected by the Syrian side, with the infiltration of terrorists across the border, the presence of cadres that support terrorism and which we believe are centred in Syria, and then the manner of the [recent] speech of President Bashar al- Asad. That has prompted me to make the decision to withdraw a delegation which I had sent to Syria to discuss joint relations.

[Abbas] However, there are accusations that Iraq is part of the US-led system that is exerting pressure on Syria now?

[Al-Ja'fari] I say clearly that Iraq does not build its bilateral relations on the trilateral basis - with the interference of another [third] side in those relations. It is the Iraqi people, who have brought this government to power, who choose the form of relations with all countries based on direct interests. They who are daily subjected to the results of the transgressions by neighbouring countries. Therefore we emphasize that our external relations are of the purely Iraqi nature and we will not allow the United States to chart our relations with Syria based on its own calculations, and the other way round.

[Abbas] Can we expect you to visit Syria soon?

[Al-Ja'fari] There is no objection to visiting Syria, but when I visit any country there has to be a favourable political climate for the visit. Personally, I am awaiting a positive gesture from the brothers in Syria.

[Abbas] What about the role of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in bringing about views closer?

[Al-Ja'fari] Our relations with Saudi Arabia are distinguished and have a history of fraternal solidarity. During my recent visit to the kingdom, the Iraqi-Syrian dossier was put forward and we discussed all our observations regarding relations with the Syrian brothers. We found there is a harmony of views with the Saudi brothers and great understanding on their part of our stand.

Messages to Iran

[Abbas] There has been activity by the US ambassador to Iraq to hold a dialogue with or send messages to Iran. Did your government have a role in the attempts to normalize stands between the two sides?

[Al-Ja'fari] Neither the Americans nor the Iranians have suggested to the Iraqi government to mediate. We in fact welcome such a role because it serves the [principle of] dialogue which we support and adopt. However, we do not undertake any role that is not compatible with the interests of our people. As for the American ambassador's role and moves, that is his right, as long as such moves are not against our people's interests. We welcome any international activity in Iraq even if it concerns other countries, but it should not conflict with Iraqi interests.

[Abbas] We constantly hear that the US political lobbies did not welcome your coming to power, and that US officials are not satisfied with your government's performance?

[Al-Ja'fari] I personally, as prime minister, always act in accordance with my people's interests. My career proves that I have always searched for common denominators which I was not shy to disclose during my recent visit to Japan. I then said there are common denominators between me and Japan. I measure my performance with my people's satisfaction and not with what others feel. I do not mortgage my will to the foreigner even if he is American. I do not merely react when I am facing such an enormous responsibility as the one I am shouldering. As for the satisfaction or lack of satisfaction of US political lobbies, that does not concern me when the [Iraqi] people are satisfied with me.

US withdrawal

[Abbas] The assumption of the withdrawal of US forces from Iraq has gone beyond the media lobbies and reached the level of official US confirmation. Was the Iraqi government prepared for such a possibility?

[Al-Ja'fari] Of course, from the time the government was formed to this day, we have been preparing plans and supporting our security forces in preparation for such a possibility. We have taken a positive step by taking over the security file from the Americans in several governorates as a prelude to taking over the security file completely and asking the multinational force to depart.

[Abbas] However, that does not go beyond a general proposal. What about systematic programmes and plans to schedule withdrawal?

[Al-Ja'fari] We have a clear vision. A moment before this interview we were having a discussion with the representatives of the multinational force to activate the US withdrawal. I believe the window has begun to narrow for achieving that withdrawal and it will be achieved in a shorter time than is expected, if the plans we are drawing up to increase the numbers, training and armament of the security forces continue to proceed as they should. However, as you know, drawing up a precise timetable in a developing process is difficult.

[Abbas] Will you sign a treaty for permanent US bases after withdrawal if you were asked to do so?

[Al-Ja'fari] That is an option that has not been put forward so far. We have not heard from the US side that it wants to build permanent bases in Iraq. I believe that the presence of US bases does not serve Iraqi interests. Moreover, such an option does not concern only the executive authority, for we are a democratic country and such a decision should be made with the approval of the Iraqi parliament.

[Abbas] However, your government has extended the stay of those forces without referring to parliament?

[Al-Ja'fari] That is not correct. We studied the issue after legal consultations and we addressed the Speaker of the National Assembly. He said the matter can be reviewed by the government and that is what happened.

[Abbas] What about the investigations in the case of the Al- Jadiriyah shelter [where prisoners held by the Interior Ministry were allegedly tortured] and what will your stand be if the involvement of important figures is proven?

[Al-Ja'fari] We have formed two committees. I am carefully following up with Deputy Prime Minister Rozh Nuri Shawes the proceedings in the investigation in the first committee. I believe the investigation is continuing and we will not exempt any person involved in that incident from just punishment even if he holds important official responsibilities. I have heard there are transgressions in another prison, and the case has been referred to the second committee, so that any transgression can be ended and those responsible for it taken to task.

Elections

[Abbas] We hear that the election campaign has reached the extent of physical liquidation, let alone tearing up posters and defamatory political propaganda. What do you say?

[Al-Ja'fari] I do not believe that an election contest justifies the shedding of blood and the spreading of lies. Those who lead this country should have high morals and competition should be over making sacrifices and competence and not over making accusations.

[Abbas] The former prime minister, Iyad Allawi, blames your government for failing to achieve people's aspiration, and he believes that he is returning with a more successful experience. Is it possible to define a distinction between the two governments?

[Al-Ja'fari] Allawi has in the past said that he has taken over a government with many paradoxes. He said some ministers were forced on him. The security standard was low during Allawi's rule and terrorism was doing what it pleases. There were also constant penetrations of the security services. We inherited a difficult legacy, the most important aspect of which was connected with administrative corruption and exploitation of the judiciary. As for the government that I was honoured to lead, I have said it was a war cabinet that focused on safeguarding people's security, combating corruption, initiating a dialogue and leading the political process, and accomplishing economic achievements. However, all that was not utilized for publicity purposes.

I do not forget that Dr Iyad Allawi's government did not deal correctly with the issues of Al-Najaf and Al-Fallujah, and the results of that policy were disastrous. Al-Najaf is still bleeding from the wounds of the past.

[Abbas] However, your government has dealt with other cities with the same logic?

[Al-Ja'fari] We did not adopt that method and we did not resort to military intervention until we exhausted all options. We acted at the request of the inhabitants of the regions themselves.

Source: BBC Monitoring Middle East

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